this is a country going through a bona fide renaissance. leaving the country at a time like this would be like taking off in an airplane without enough fuel. it's only a matter of time before gravity drags you down. we americans, and in particular we american jews, should be doing everything we can to make sure a two-state resolution becomes a reality. it demands no less. >> well said, david. "hardball" is up now. >> the bain mutiny. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews up in boston. you've heard of the cain mutiny, how a bunch of naval officers overthrew the ship's captain. well, they're talking about what's happening now with obama the bain mutiny. steve ratner, harold ford,

governor rendell, each going after romney saying he's dead wrong. they're goingover the job-killing history with bain capital. governor ed rendell along with new york magazine's john haloman. an e-mail lists six democrats saying they're tired of free enterprise. an excerpt reads as follows. rendell joined the course of criticism over obama's attacks on finance, whose leaders have written checks to many members of both parties. i think they're very disappointing, rendell said of the ads, attacking bain. i think bain is fair game because romney has made it fair game, but i think how you examine it, the tone, what you say is important as well. governor rendell, big question. are you with the obama campaign as it's being run right now or are you against it? >> well, either/or.

right now i'd like to see the president -- i think he's done a good job, chris, and you and i discussed it. i'd like to see him emphasize the terrific things he's done for the country under different circumstances. and the ad himself, of course he has the right to go after governor romney's claim that he's a job creator because of his work at bain. that's the main thrust of his rationale why he should be elected president, because he's a businessman and he knows how to create jobs. he didn't create jobs, he created wealth, and let's examine that. i think the media has the responsibility to take all the deals that governor rop knmney at bain, look at them and were they net job gain or net job loss. 10,000 jobs created. he said in the republican primary 100,000 jobs, and now he's saying tens of thousands of jobs. so the obama campaign has a right to say to the american people, this guy says he's a job creator. it isn't so. and that's a legitimate question. it's like when i ran for governor, i said i was a great mayor. my opponents had the right to

say, well, indication in philadelphia wasn't so hot, was it? >> but the problem is now, governor, you've been thrown into a course now. after the booker campaign said they were nauseating, you said you were acting for president obama in this campaign. >> i'm sorry for all the political campaign things right now. they all slam. nobody talks about the good being done in politics. it's the reason for so much dissatisfaction and so many voters who don't have confidence in the government. is this a fair topic? of course it is, chris, and you've said it on many occasions, too. would i make the ads a little different in tone? sure, i would, but this deserves a full examination of whether governor romney is a job creator. i think when the president said yes today, he created wealth,

not jobs. i think that is to a great degree of accuracy. i would love to see the way campaigns are run in america totally changed. >> john harmon, you're looking at game changing again here, perhaps. it looks like the republicans got what they wanted. they want an articulate spokesman against the president. now they've got it in cory booker and others. they're using people like steven ratner, they've got some really good people here seeming to be making their case that mitt romney and his role at bain is not fair game. >> well, i'm not sure -- yes, chris, certainly they have talking points on this, and look, the bottom line is that private equity is a bipartisan profession. there are a lot of people who are democrats, rich democrats, who are in private equity. steven ratner is a good example of someone like that. it's not unreasonable to think that someone like steven rat

nerksratner is going to go all around the country. it's a very tricky argument the president is trying to make. it's clear that it's fair game. there's no doubt when mitt romney cites this as his main credential as a job creator, the obama campaign is going to rightfully look at it. he doesn't talk about his record in massachusetts. there's a reason for that. because his record as a governor in massachusetts is not very good. he cites bain, the obama administration goes after that, but it's the case that a lot of democratic donors and a lot of former democratic officials have gone into private equity. they're not going to find someone quickly applauding the president when their profession has been attacked. >> you're being kind to these equity people, because they're not only not applauding the president, they're trashing his campaign, calling it nauseating on "meet the press." let's take a look at the ads you're talking about when people like cory booker is nauseated by

it. apparently it's the only one they're talking about. let's listen. >> i was a steel worker for 30 years. it was something that was american made, and we weren't rich, but i was able to put my and raise a family on. it's hugely important. >>. >> it's like watching an old friend bleed to death. >> what's wrong with the ad, governor? >> well, the vampire stuff is a little strong. when i said the tone of the ad, the other stuff is very legitimate because governor romney put on ads during prit marries about workers that bain helped supposedly get their jobs, so this is fair game. and i think the obama campaign should have stayed with that, should have stayed with the fact that under bain, x amount r

capital. it's not the case for all. there are plenty of good grounds, but vampire, that got me as off a little in tone. again, what john said is right. this is the central issue of the campaign and this is president romney's claim as to why he's going to be a good president. >> let's take a look at the president. here i think the president was forced. >> what he's saying is a guy like romney should not be out there saying i'm the perfect guy for president because i ran bain. here he is making that case yesterday in his press conference. let's listen. >> the reason this is relevant to the campaign is my opponent, governor romney, his main calling card for why he thinks he should be president, and his experience. when you're, then your job is to

maximize profits, your job is to figure out how everyone in the country has a fair shot. so if your economy, then you're missing what this job is about. >> let me go to john. it seems to me there were not arg you'll good, economic circumstances. he's in her. he's not going to come to the bench like romney and say, i'm mr. clean. i'm going to fix this record. this is about the buff let. okay, that's the even the way he

rolls the sleeves up is not the guy to fix our economy. lelt me get back to john hamao on the outside of the campaign. this idea that he has to be so fine tuned now and so careful about the sensitivities of people like ratner and the rest of them, and cory booker and the guys who depend on their pals on wall street, if he has to be so dainty and tip toe through the tulips. the these. . that's just how it is. >> but these rules of engage. >> chris, do you like vampire? >> the idea, you said you don't believe in negative ads. give me a break. you guys always write negative

ads, don't you? >> in my last campaign, i ran very few. do you think a vampire is a good way to describe what vein did. i don't think they're job kreerts but they' investors tooa hundred million out, and i understand the workers lost their pension and part of their health care. couldn't they have taken 80 million out and saved that to give to the workers as they're losing their jobs? isn't that a legitimate question about where your values are? >> of course it's a legitimate question, and, look, i'll cite steven ratner on this point, there were a few instances where bain, and i know the obama campaign has all of them, where they behaved in a way where it seems like there is a case that would be made where they were -- where the workers were harmed in a way that is atypical of

private equity. so you're going to hear about those cases. it's not the majority of what bain did, but they're real cases and those obviously are the cases the president and his team are going to focus on and they're going to hit them really, really hard. there's just no way in which this isn't going to be at the center of things, and chris, i don't know what the rules of engagement are, but it just points to the difficulty of the president's position. the president is simultaneously trying to run a populist claim, and he's probably going to spend a lot of money, he's going to have them write big checks to the super pac. you can't be huey long, you can't be a full-fledged populist, that's how it is. he's in a box. >> look, here's the problem. this electoral week and this campaign, which is just kbegt

started, governor, started with a guy selling himself on national television, a turn to the risk. then he basically said to the president, nauseated and with his campaign, he fires people. beer the good guys, i basically thank you on everything i've done. this is such an easy one. this is like a turnover in sports. >> chris, can i suggest to you you're right, and sawyer was right when he said we don't belong to any organized party. we're democrats. but also think about this. think about this. we didn't have anyone, say, associated with us that nothing matters. it's going to be an etch a

sketch matter, then it will be wiped away and nobody will remember it. this election is coming down to the acceptance speech and the three debates. nobody is going to remember cory booker. what's the name on etch a sketch? nobody will remember us. >> remember hugh miller from a couple conventions ago who turned south in that victory party. coming up, where are the democratic surrogates that should be out there supporting obama? how come we -- who were the voters who are going to sdrid this election. . they figure they're thinking of a way to hit obama.

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welcome back to "hardball." president obama yesterday succinctly indicted romney's reason for running. where were the surrogates hitting romney? she's down in florida, she's the

florida congresswoman from florida, debbie wasser. where have you been the last couple months? >> i've been out there, but i also had my twins the last weekend, so i've been busy being a mom, too. >> i've been missing you. we want you for our own for selfish reasons. i want to show you something right now. it's what i think a surrogate should be doing. we know this guy isn't always on message, but when he is, he's pretty good. here's vice president joe biden attacking mitt romney's rationale for running for president today. let's watch the veep do surrogate work. >> he says he's better able to be commander in chief because of his business experience. that's why he should be -- well, it's not an irrational argument but depending on the business

and your success in the business. a job is legitimate. it's legitimate. but folks, making money without regard for consequences of the workers and the companies they acquire or the communities that get wasted is another question. folks, making money for your investors, which romney did very approximately, is not the president's job. >> well, there you have it, congresswoman, madam chairman. it seems to me. i'm not an a-plus performance but an equally good performance echoing romney's. the accusation that he was successful at bain is not true.

i would have thought an orchestra leader would be important here. somebody pointing out, you do saturday, you do the minorities on monday, but let's get this thing with an orchestra sound here and all i hear is a solo act from the president broken now by these -- well, they're not purposely saboteurs, but they sabotaged the whole operation this week. >> we're proud that we have a very deep and sound surrogate system where we have plenty of leaders who are out there speaking on behalf of the president of the united states and making a case for his reelection. that's because they believe in his candidacy and his record of accomplishment. >> which cabinet members? which members of the cabinet are out there speaking for the president politically for his reelection? >> secretary sebelius is one of those cabinet members. remember, there are some cabinet

members that are restricted and unable to advocate on behalf of the president, like the attorney general and the secretary of state, the secretary of homeland security. so you won't see those cabinet officials out there, so they are actively controlling their jobs. you have sebelius, the secretary of commerce, the secretary of energy. i was just down in south florida with the ambassador susan rice who came down to talk with the jewish community, and she wasn't down to talk about the president's candidacy but about his record of accomplishments and support for israel. we have internal surrogates who are making the case for the president, and then we have a number of widespread outside surrogates like governor ted strickland, for example, the former governor of ohio, and governor rendell is certainly a surrogate for myself, and a

broad number of members of congress. congresswoman donna edwards. there are a very long list of surrogates for the president, and they've been out there repeatedly. >> i watch a lot of television congresswoman, and i got to tell you, it looks like a solo act. when he was in second. >> i didn't here anybody jumping to his defense, did you? >> chris, i think there are times when it's appropriate to put a surrogate out there, and there are times when president obama believes there is no one better than the president himself to stand up and make the central case that because mitt romney has been repeatedly saying that his central qualification for the presidency of the united states is his record at bain capital, i think it's entirely appropriate for the president to make sure in

this country understand a qualification and if he is representing he is, then a close scrutiny of that record is entirely appropriate. >> thank you so much. debbie wasserman schultz. mick bashir for time magazine. i think you agree with me that it's a plan for the obama administration to put on a good surrogate operation. >> i heard it from the white house, and that's one reason i brought in bill daly, that they long wanted new surrogates. they went through a couple of commerce secretaries. they do have some people out there. ted strickland has done an

kprent job for them, but, you know a few things with the administration. they didn't realize until the end of that year that they needed other people to take the heat off of him. two, i think the white house and the president himself has looked down on this war. they took a long time to explain to glenn beck, they took a long time to get back to the tea pear. do you have now a spags which the gravitational pull of the president has been diminished. you have politicians and ex-politicians who are looking out for their own brands who don't want to sign on to what's going to be a very vicious

campaign. that creates a pob who orchestrated. it should be the white house normally but right now the dmc controls it many i think your point is also taken for ear. they're playing for little, incremental wins, ground game, things like that. it's for for them to argue. their built to built this their ting. my guess is that over the next several weeks because of this, they get their stuff together. they do have people out there. .

and there's other inside the campaign that they'll be promoting. you'll see people getting a talking to before they go on air. obviously that didn't happen with booker before he went on "meet the press," but i'll be surprised if the campaign allows anybody to go on again without sitting him down and saying, you have to understand the stakes here. >> i think, michael, the point you're making and a bigger way of saying, perhaps, is you don't really look like you're commanding the united states and leading the whole country unless you seem to have people working for you and speaking for you. it doesn't send the signal of a leader, it sends the signal of a solo act. i think the president often looks like a solo act, and that's not good. up next, which potential romney running mate says he would disconnect the phone if he knew he was getting the call? that's next on the side show. "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ surf's up everybody get your boards and your wetsuits ♪

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today, president obama tossed around a football at soldier field, home of the chicago bears. obama told biden to go along, then he hopped into his car and drove away. >> that's pretty good. you're watching the side show, obviously. let's go right to the gop clown show, back to it, rather. yesterday was donald trump saying, quote, let them go at it, encouraging pro-romney pacs linking obama with reverend jeremiah wright. >> i thought so in 2008 and that's why i went rogue, if you will, and disagreed with some john mccain's advisers when they said no to the issues like pass fist reservations and those who helped shape obama's world needed to be off the table and not discussed. i disagreed then, i disagree now. obama back in 2008 was an empty vessel. it's not too late to change

course, and this next go-round understand what has filled up this vessel. who are these people? who are the radicals, the marxist professor he said he would hang out with and some of his friends in association. >> i think her briefing papers have the weight of a comic book. there you have it, that's sarah palin, the so-called game changer calling for more thorough vetting of president obama. i would put vetting in her case more to use. now let's catch up with the beefcake. see if you can figure out which running mate is behind this nug get. this person was asked yesterday if they had been contacted by team romney about the vetting process. the comeback? quote, of course not. if i thought that call was coming, i would disconnect the phone. who said that? well, actually, it was the man from indiana, mitch daniels. up next, attacks on bain capital and romney's way of

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i'm sue herera with your cnbc market wrap. trading in the dow falls about two points, the s&p up a fraction, the nasdaq lower by 8. facebook shares dive nearly 9% followed by monday's loss. two other firms cut revenue forecasts on the company. meanwhile, existing home sales rose 3.4% in april to the highest level in almost two years. after the closing bell, dow reported earnings that missed estimates. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball" and

chris. welcome back to "hardball." who is going to decide this year's election? according to the latest msnbc journal poll, almost everybody has made up their minds and is firmly committed to either barack obama or mitt romney, there is a small group of voters out there who say they're unsure or unimpressed with either of the candidates. as one of the pollsteres summed it up, never has so much money been spent to persuade so few. we're talking about a handful of voters, basically. what do we know about these people in the middle? they overwhelmingly think the company is headed in the wrong direction, but yet while their views of obama is mostly negative, mitt romney scores much worse. could it be the bain attacks are working or that they're on target, at least?

people who were so disaffected by this say the country is above $1 billion and he makes his money by firing people. chief white house correspondent and managing editor of postpoliti postpolitics.com. i think this is just fascinating, chuck. i know you've been talking about this with some others, our producers. in this small group of hard-core people who i almost think of them as ross perot people. they don't like people in general, maybe, they've had a hard life, but they don't like mitt romney, either. >> every month we have this 7 to 10% that's undecided, so what we did is we pooled all the undecideds from three to four straight pools so you get a larger number of folks and figure out who they are. boy, did we figure out who they are. as you pointed out, they're very negative on the president, very

negative on mitt romney. but here's the person they're not negative on. that's ron paul. so when you described them as perot types, that's exactly what they are. these are the no b.s. voters. they're burned out on the b.s. they don't want to tinker with washington around the edges, they want to massively demolish this place. that's what you see in here. they think the country is more on the wrong track than the rest, they think the president is doing a worse job than the rest, they have a worse view of mitt romney. these folks, though, mitt romney, i would argue, may need more. these people strike me as people who may not vote, and that's a scary thing if you're mitt romney. he needs them more than obama. >> who do they hate more? who do they distrust more, the government bureaucrat with the attache case with the sandwich coming to bother them, or do they distrust the corporate guy

who comes in and takes over their company, dumps people like them and makes more money in the people they invest in? >> if you answer that question, then you would find out where these undecideds would move. i think that's the choice for these people, if you will, because they don't like government. they feel government intrudes on them, they don't like a lot of those things, but as you pointed out, they mistrust. a lot of your typical ron paul supporters are highly educated i.t. type of guy, and they don't trust anybody with the title of coo, cfo or ceo, either. >> i think i know some of these guys. here's the interesting numbers in terms of people who say they're unsure how they want to vote. take a look at it. by a huge margin, they think the company is on the wrong track. 71% say that.

ask about mitt romney, 9%, 9% liked the looks of this guy. >> yep. i mean, chris, look, i think chuck is right. these family are called disaffected for a reason. they're not necessarily disaffected with democrats or republicans, they're disaffected with the process. what that 9% does suggest is if the obama team can accomplish their goal, which is, this is a choice between what barack obama has done and will do versus what mitt romney says he will do, if they can make 2012 election a choice, then mitt romney isn't all that appealing a choice. if they can't make it a choice, though, chris, if it's a referendum, essentially, look, you have two choices. barack obama is a, mitt romney is b. if you don't like a, your only other option is b. that's how romney ends up winning among these undecided

voters. he's not going to go from 9% favorable to 55% favorable. his numbers are never going to be great. he just has to convince them he is a viable, incredible alternative if they want to fire git who is currently in office. >> does it surprise you, chuck, this quality issue, gay marriage issue, has no impact on the voters, it seems. >> not only that, but how about the second question we asked which said if you would be in favor or would approve of same sex marriage being legalized in your state, and what was interesting there is we asked it in a four-part question, that they would push for it, they would be highly supportive of it, they would favor it but not push for it, not try to actively get it passed, and then you have the ones that say, well, i would oppose it but i wouldn't actively try to see it repealed. and when you look at the balance, you see the shift. it's a passive shift toward approving gay marriage, and so put it this way, any state that passes it, you're -- it's going

to be hard to see outside of the religious -- more religious based southern voter and southern states. you're not going to see states -- people want to see rights taken away, if you will. >> i agree. chris, mitt romney still has some major obstacles in this poll. it blocks the voters in the msnbc voters poll. 34% lead with hispanics, 15% lead for the women. if the president can hold that 15% with women voters out there, they say he's going to win. >> i think they're right. if you go back and look at the math, the margins are relatively slim here, but i think anything above about 13%, the map just becomes difficult. look, women have been a majority of the electorate since 1980, if they continue to be a majority of the electorate, if you're losing that big a chunk by 13,

14, 15 or higher, the numbers don't add up at some point. now, i think if romney can get it down to 10, 9, maybe even 11, he could win. the reality on both sides, chris, but essentipecially for romney, mitt romney is not winning this election -- i would be stunned if he did -- with 53, 54, 55% of the popular vote. if he does, he will win by 51.7, 51.3. it's hard to imagine either popular vote wise or even in the electoral vote. >> i think romney's key here is the larger argument. in order to get to 50, he has to win the larger argument that somehow he's going to make the economy better, so if he does that, i think suddenly getting to 52 and 53 becomes easier,

that there's not a big margin there. i think the hard part for him is winning the initial argument and getting there. >> i'm with our numbers guy we all listen to at msnbc on election night. it's too early to call. i have no idea -- i have learned it's too early, not too close, because it could well break this campaign. we don't know. it could break in the fall, i think. thank you, chuck todd. up next, the republicans seem to have decided that the partisan personal attacks, the real nasty stuff against the president doesn't work, so they have a new line of attack being forged by mr. nice, carl rove, that seeming to be nice is the smart move. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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so they matter most to us. if you're caring for a child with special needs, our innovative special care program offers strategies that can help. four years ago, colin powell passed obama for president. today colin powell praised obama for rescuing the auto industry and led them out of the biggest downturn since the great depression. powell is going to endorse obama -- at least for now. >> the beautiful part of being a private citizen is you can decide when you want to throw your weight if you want to throw your weight. i'm stilllistening to what the republicans say they're going to

do to get the fiscal economy moving. i think i owe them that. >> powell keeping his power dry in this campaign. we'll be right back. if you are one of the millions of men who have used androgel 1%, there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%.

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failed. msnbc political analyst cynthia tucker and visiting professor at the university of georgia. here's the crossroads campaign. it will begin airing tomorrow. it's going to run, as i said, in swing states across the next three weeks. big money behind it, 10 $10 million. it is aimed at people disenchanted with the president. let's watch, karl rove's money in action. >> i always loved watching kids play basketball. still do. though things have changed. they can't find jobs. and i can't afford to retire. and now that we're all living together again, i supported president obama's agenda but he spent like our country's credit card had no limit. $4 billion deepener debt everyday. how will my kids pay that off when they can't get jobs? tell president obama, cut the job killing debt and support the new majority agenda at new majority agenda.org. >> michael, what do you make of that ad pitch? >> i think it is a very good ad

pitch. it cuts right to the core of what romney and the republicans all 21 talk about and that is the economy, strain and stress of debt on our ability to create jobs, to get a job. and i think it's at -- i think it's done very well. it is obviously appealing to women, a major decision makers in most households as well as you just talked about in the last segment chris, in terms of voting. so it is a direct appeal, a softer approach, lower tone, focused on a core concern that voters have out there. and i this i it is very well done. >> as you write, obama beat caine by 13 points, he leads now by 15 points. a group romney can't afford to lose by double digits. let me go to cynthia. without getting too nasty about a white woman here, apparently a single white woman, no mention of spouse or partner of any kind, no male around the house

there, that's the group he is really going for, it seems to me. if you want it target what he is targeting. >> i agree, completely, chris. republicans tend to do well among married women. but they don't do nearly well among unmarried women. i'm not sure that ad wants to be clear about whether this woman is married or not. i think it is intentionally ambiguous but leaves the viewer plenty of room to decide, she's not married. she said, i can't retire. the other thing i think that's interesting about this ad, the actress, the actor, says that she voted for obama before, so this ad is targeted at women who voted for obama before but whose finances haven't improved as much as they had hoped. so it is narrowly targeted, but clearly romney wants to wrench away some of those women who voted for obama in the past but

may be open to voting for romney this time around. it's a good ad. you know, it has a couple of lies in it. as political ads want to do. but it's not harsh. strikes a softer tone. it's 5 good ad. >> what do you make of the fact that the people behind this ad don't want anybody to know who they are, michael? this is an absolutely tight secret here in this gps ad, crossroads gps. we're never going to know who the people are that put $10 million together for rove. why do they keep their names secret? >> because they are not required to disclose that under the law. i think we have litigated this before. and it will take an act of congress to change that. and so, you know, there's no need for anyone to disclose, you know, their individual donation necessarily and certainly, you know, that's a accumulation of funds that paid for this ad. not one necessarily donor that made pour that. >> we don't know that. >> we don't know that. >> we don't know any of that. we don't know anything. >> but bottom line, chris,

whether you are talking about gps or obama's super pac, it is the same reality that no one will say when mr. burton puts out ads on behalf of obama. will he disclose who contributed to that ad? no, he doesn't have to. >> but the point that the people paying for the ad are not the single women out there voting for obama the last time. there is no "we" involved in this, cynthia. >> they don't have the money. no, no, no, they don't have the money to fund the super pacs. >> these are the people voting against obama with everything they had. the people that dumped so much last time that couldn't beat him or doing it this time. >> you're cutting the angle but not make anything sausage. you can make whatever assumptions you want about the donors. the money goes into the pot, the pot is churn had, the ad is produced. that the reality. >> i believe in cleansing the fact of daylight, michael steele. >> so do i, chris.

>> your own secrecy campaign. thank you, cynthia, tucker. you can defend the darkness of the fund-raising efforts. i know you're a clean guy, but why you defend these people mazes me. >> i don't defend them. full disclosure. i agree, there should full disclesh you're but the law doesn't require that. >> i want to know who they are under that rock. i want to pick up that brick, rock, and see the bugs under there. big question for the obama campaign. are top democrats going to back him on his ig biggest issue or not? i'm freaking out man.

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let me finish tonight with this. the time has come for all good men and women to come to the aid of their party. well, that's of course, an old typing drill. it can also be a call to obama democrats these days. he raised the banner of economic fairness. he said americans should share the cost fairly. that what the buffet role are about. he says that 1% shouldn't get special tax deals while others are getting life and death benefits. sounds like fdr, harry truman and bill clinton rolled into one. tougher point, does the president have the right it set the course after campaign or doesn't he. if president obama stakes out the position the democratic